Leading the Charge: Expert Tips for Credit Union Collection Teams

Connect & Collect Podcast - Season 2, Episode 11

In this episode of Connect and Collect, we welcome Alisha Blondel, Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union. Alisha shares her journey from starting in the credit union sector in 2003 to her passion-driven climb to leading collections. 

She emphasizes the transformative approach to collections, focusing on empathy, listening, and genuinely understanding members' situations to provide helpful solutions. The discussion also explores how FSU Credit Union builds its community through dedication to member service and educational initiatives like the National Credit Union Collections Professionals (CUCP) conference. 

Alisha provides insightful advice for collections professionals at all career stages. She advocates for patience, continuous learning, and investing in personal and professional growth. Additionally, she highlights the importance of internal team building and creating rewarding work environments within collections departments.

What we're talking about in this episode:

• Alisha's Career Journey: From starting as a Branch Teller in 2003 to becoming the Director of Collections, Alisha shares her professional growth story and the milestones along the way.
• Empathetic Collections Approach: Learn about the shift towards a more understanding and empathetic approach to collections, which has proven effective in dealing with members compassionately.
• Training and Performance Incentives: Alisha discusses innovative training techniques and performance incentives that motivate and empower collection teams.
• Career Advice for Collection Professionals: Gain valuable insights and tips for both aspiring and current collections professionals looking to advance in their careers.
• The CUCP Annual Conference: Hear about the impact of professional gatherings like the CUCP conference on community building and professional development within the credit union sector.
• FSU Credit Union’s Community Impact: Explore how FSU Credit Union is making a significant impact in the community through educational initiatives and dedicated member service.

And what my team does is we help them get through it. And there really isn't a better feeling in the world knowing that you've saved somebody to keep them in their car or to keep them in their home  - Alisha Blondel

Guest Profile:

Alisha Blondel - Connect with Alisha on LinkedIn

Read the Transcript:

[00:00:26] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And hello, everybody. Welcome back. It is a pleasure to be here this morning, uh, or good afternoon. Good evening. Whenever anybody is listening to this, this morning, today, I get the pleasure of introducing a fantastic speaker that I've had the privilege of speaking, with over the last couple of months. And at the end of every single one of those conversations, I ended up having a smile on my face because we have such a great time. , and no doubt for the listeners out there, I think what you will soon start to know if you have not met Alisha Blondel, who is currently the director of collections at FSU credit union, that you will see, a lot of passion, a lot of creativity, and someone dedicated to the role and no doubt, hopefully at the end of this, you have a big smile on your face, just like me.

And so with that introduction for those that don't know Alisha, that's what you had. And so, of course, those that do know Alisha, I think everything that I said, I set the bar too low, and so maybe I'm, I'm prefacing this in a way that is a little bit different than some of our other podcasts. Uh, we're going to put to the side, the reading of a bio and Alisha, I'm going to start right away just by saying good morning. Thank you for dedicating some time with us. And I would love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself,  where you're from, what you do, and maybe we can start off the podcast that way.

[00:01:42] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Oh, absolutely. First of all, thank you so much for having me on. This is definitely an experience that I'm looking forward to. But, uh, as for me, I am Alisha Blondel. I am from Tallahassee, Florida. Born and raised. See, I started out in the credit union world in about 2003. So that's over 20 years of credit union experience. And in 2007 I kind of made the switch over to collections and I've been there ever since. Um, it's one of those things where I always joke around and you will hear people at other conferences will talk about, you know, well, how did you get into collections? And they'll say, oh, well I was voluntold, or I was a lender and they made me collect on my own loan, but I ended up falling into collections.

My story is actually a little bit different. Um, I actually volunteered to go into collections. Um, when I was a branch teller supervisor, there was a time with the credit union that I was at where collections have been short staffed. And so they said, Hey, um, does anybody want to come over and earn some extra money and do some overtime? And I'm like, Oh, absolutely. You know, I was young. I'm like, extra money. Let's do this. And so I ended up seeing or spending those times in the afternoons and on the weekends, just really talking with our members. And I'm telling you, it's a whole different side of it. When you get to really hear their stories and hear their challenges, and I'm like, oh my goodness. Look at me, this is actually a better opportunity, in my opinion, to help someone. And so, after doing that for about two weeks, I told the collections manager at that institution, Hey, if you ever have an open spot, please let me know about it, because this was fantastic.

 Just, again, being able to go home and knowing that you've made a real impact on someone's lives, just, it got me, right? It got me in my feels. Um, and so, uh, about a year later, she had an opening in that position, and I immediately switched over. So I went from being a branch teller supervisor to a collector in my roles in my career with collections. I've been a collector, I've been a repossession specialist, a collection supervisor, a collections analyst, a consumer lending analyst, and then I ended up becoming the director of collections. So, again. It's one of those things where it's not the path that I thought my career would take, but I could not be happier with where I am right now.

[00:04:07] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: It's amazing. And I love that you started it with. I did this voluntarily. It wasn't by accident. And for those, no, no, no shots at anybody who falls into this area, it, there's a lot of conversations and I think we all poke fun a little bit where it becomes the necessity. Like you were saying, right, a loan officer having to follow up, or let's say tellers where the branch is a little bit, uh, lower, you know, volume coming through.

And so there's a little extra time. And so we jump on the phones to try to make phone calls to members. But you actively went into this with eyes wide open with the intent of connecting with members and bringing that empathetic side to really help them out and fell in love with that level of communication.

[00:04:48] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think one of the things that, um, as a collector, you know everyone's going to have their stereotype of what a business unit is going to look like, right? So you think of going to the DMV and then all of a sudden there's an image of what that experience is going to be like, or you think about going to the dentist and everyone has immediate, has an image of like what that experience is going to feel like. Collections is kind of the same way, right? You're like, oh my gosh, it's Collections, and they're mean, and they're cruel, or they don't want to help. And when I tell you that it is completely far from the truth, I will tell you that there was a time where Collections really was kind of the wild, wild west.

[00:05:25] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You know, and you would hear these horror stories of people threatening to break ankles, or break legs, or showing up to your job. but that's changed. Kind of like out with the old, and in with the new, and what you will find now more within the collections field, is you really do have this group of professionals who have a genuine interest and want to help people.

And those who actually have that, and keep that, find that this career, this position is going to be one of the most rewarding that you can have. And again, I'm biased because I'm a collector, but I'm telling you, I wouldn't want a different department. I wouldn't want a different field. I feel that what we do matters and I feel that it's a great way to, without sounding overly cheesy, I kind of picture our department like as the lighthouse, right?

[00:06:11] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So members are out on this financial turbulent storm, and they're like, Oh, my goodness, there's absolutely no way that I can get through this. And what my team does is we help them get through it. And there really isn't a better feeling in the world, knowing that you save somebody to keep them in their car or to keep them in their home or to, you know.

[00:06:28] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Just to help them out. So I started this introduction talking about your passion and your creativity and your dedication to the role. And within what the 45 seconds that we're in, it's already coming through. I'm jumping out of my seat. That's, uh, that's looking at this collections. You can't have an off day.

And I'm going to credit that line with somebody here at Lexop who engages in a lot of conversations, and she is equally as passionate to this. And it's a true statement. And I often make the joke that, look, as somebody who falls into a state of past due, very rarely is it because they've won Powerball,

[00:07:02] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Scratch.

[00:07:03] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Normally because of something a little bit, you know, more heavy, they may have lost a job, a loved one. They may be having relationship issues. Um, you know, a number of different kind of situations. And it could be something as simple as those members that always need the kind little nudge to make sure that they're doing what they do. And they do have the funds. It's nothing more than just, they need a little bit more babysitting and a little bit more attention to it. Uh, but the, the emotional state of it is always a charged, right? I don't know of any collections teams that get a phone call in the day from the members saying, Hey, I just want to let you know everything is up to date. You're doing a great job. Uh, just wanted to wish you a great day. Right?

[00:07:45] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: It's a great day. Right.

[00:07:49] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And maybe we should start making some spot calls to people and just saying, Hey, by the way, you're doing great, right? It's always something that's heavy. So your empathetic approach and your dedication to the member experience and then tying it back to helping them stay in the car, helping them stay in the home, even just helping them out.

If there is a cashflow issue and then tying that back into what I think is insanely important, which is the financial education side is wildly helpful. And you're right. The industry has changed very much. And what a terrific segue. In your career and your personal journey, it has led you to being on the board of an event that is upcoming in May 15th to the 17th and national CUCP. Tell me a little bit about your participation with that event and what your current role is with them. And what your vision for that organization for the years to come.

[00:08:45] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So, um. The CUCP is sort of like a passion project between myself and the fellow board members where, it started out back in about 2017, uh, where we would kind of meet up at different conferences. And normally these were vendor led conferences, so like your Temenos conference, your Symitar conference, where we would kind of get together and kind of talk shop. And the comment was made, like, hey, isn't it crazy that we really only see each other once a year, if that, and that's because a vendor has you know, put on this conference or this field, and especially like on the East Coast. So you really didn't have a true collections focused conference type on the East Coast.

We're like, hey, what if we got together to do that? Because again, who we are as collectors, Um, again, versus the old adage of grumpy old people who want to take your money versus no, we're real professionals trying to help. And so what can we do to support that new narrative, right? What can we lean on in order to make sure that as people are coming into this field, they recognize that, hey, you're not breaking legs, you're saving lives, right? In a different type of way of saving lives. So what can we do to kind of do that and harness that? And so we did. We got together with some vendors who kind of also shared our same type of passion. And then, so every year we're like, what can we do to help educate and promote? This is what collections is.

[00:10:06] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: This is the mark of a true professional, you know, about networking, about being able to have the right mentors. Because that's important. You want to be able to have a team that if you have someone struggling that you're not, in a sense, creating the wheel, you have someone who's kind of gone on that journey with you and saying, you know what, when I, you know, approached this or, you know, came across this issue, I was able to use blank to solve for this.

[00:10:29] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Um, and that's kind of what the networking part of this is. But regardless, as I'm getting sidetracked on it. What we strive to do is just find really great ways to promote the professional, I don't know if I can say this without stuttering, the professional, development and promotion of what we do as a field, and we love it, and we partner with vendors.

[00:10:47] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So, every single year, we host what's called an educational conference, an educational summit, and it's crazy, right? I think about our first one was about in 2018, 2019. And there were probably like 30 people in like the break room at Grow Credit Union in Florida. To now, in May, we have almost a sold out event in Nashville.

[00:11:07] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So I'm telling everyone who's there, if you've never come to one of our events, please do. It's a great way to meet other collection professionals. We have fantastic speakers that come in and talk about relative things that can not only help you professionally develop, but there are things that you can bring back to your team, things that might be relevant to your credit union.

[00:11:26] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I mean, that's, that's what we're looking for. What can we continually do to promote? Um, and I think it's just the growth of this journey of this career and making sure that everyone, um, you know, whether you're a beginning collector or someone who's been in, you know, this game like I have for, you know, 15 plus years, that you leave with something that you find that was worth your time and with your effort.

[00:11:48] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So, I think I said before, I think our Nashville event is completely sold out. So I'm so sorry if you guys missed the opportunity to join us on that. But we will be doing some more virtual. Events we've tried to work on those quarterly. We've had a really successful week around table where we talk with other credit unions about some of their their pains and just different recommendations to kind of help that that that offset of the department.

[00:12:12] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Uh, the other thing that we also do is talk about events while our national event is sold out. We are prepping for 2025 and 2025 will be in New Orleans. So go to our website at the CUC pros dot com to find out about that event. You can register for that as well, and I think that's about it. I'm sorry. Hopefully I didn't stumble too much

[00:12:34] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: No, not, not at all. I think, um, you know, for anybody that has not been to C. U. C. P. Uh, you know, Lexop will be there again this year. This is going to be our 2nd year. We fell in love with the event last year, and that's what ultimately led us to having our conversations and coming back. I was given probably the biggest compliment ever because I'll be one of the speakers at this year's event in Nashville.

[00:12:59] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: So Lexop is a wild supporter of what it is that you guys do because of. The amount of sharing that does take place. And it goes beyond some of the, I guess the traditional conference kind of format where you guys really do put the rubber to the road. And there's, there's a lot there to take regardless of the stage of the career that you're at.

[00:13:20] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: There are takeaways that are pretty significant and you guys create the environment in order for them to do that. And by the way, Nashville for this one, New Orleans for, for next year, I mean, You guys are picking some pretty fun locations with some terrific food. So what's better than, you know, high educational content, a little bit of good dining, wonderful friends, and hopefully some takeaways that make life a little bit easier for everybody.

[00:13:47] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Youo keep using the word passion and I think it's rubbed off on me, Alisha, over the last couple of months, I find myself doing that more and more. And I believe, and we've had this conversation before, and I'd love for you to spend, you know, a couple of moments just sharing your thoughts, but collections, there will always be a scenario of collections when times have been good in terms of the market,  people fell past you, when things get a little bit.

[00:14:13] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: More dark in terms of, uh, interest rates rising, um, you know, the, the liquidity, you know, kind of pool being dried up a little bit, uh, a little bit more uncertainty, kind of like what we're seeing today. And there's a lot of credit unions today that have seen delinquencies rise. But the passion of, you know, the member solutions teams and collectors to try to help members that feel overwhelmed is probably The greatest strategy that everybody, regardless of the size of the organization can kind of hone in on and train on.

[00:14:44] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: I would love for you to spend a couple of moments about how you engage with members who are feeling overwhelmed and what you do with your team to try to help them communicate, knowing that that is, you know, the scenario that is looming over the head of so many, and I think that that is one of the biggest keys to your success among a lot of other things that you do.

[00:15:05] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Turn it over to you.

[00:15:06] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: No, absolutely, so I think the biggest piece of this, right, and I do this when I train my new collectors, um, and for those of you guys who are not training your staff and your teams, please do so, even if it's quarterly, even if it's twice a year, just to really go over, dig into some accounts, and then you need to teach and show the behaviors that you want, right?

[00:15:26] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So part of that onboarding that I do with my collectors is that we talk about I kind of put it to, do you guys remember like the State Farm commercials where they say, you know, we know how to do everything because we've seen everything. So I kind of, kind of regale that to exactly. So I kind of regale that to our, um, to my team and I say, look, we're the experts in this.

[00:15:44] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: We're the professionals. And so what we need to show is the confidence to resolve the issue. And so before you take, or even pick up the phone to make any call, let's actually see what's going on in this person's life. Transaction histories tell a story, right? Prior and previous collection notes tell a story.

[00:16:02] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And better yet, let the member tell the story. Actually have a conversation where you are listening to understand what's going on in that situation. Because, by the way, I think it's like the, it's your 70 30 rule, right? Like, the member's supposed to talk 70 percent of the time, you're supposed to talk 30 percent of the time.

[00:16:20] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: But get that ball rolling and let them start telling you what's going on in their life, and so when you start taking that approach, and I always say that it's a mind shift, right? You probably have about 99 percent of your members in any organization are really good people that have had something bad happen to them.

[00:16:36] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And if you take that approach of this is actually a really good person that's had something bad happen, whether it was a lost spouse, an accident at work, a lost job, reduced hours, , when you take that approach of, they're not intending to walk away from this debt. They're not intending to, you know, to steal, so to speak, from the credit union.

[00:16:56] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: It makes that conversation a lot smoother. Uh, another thing that I put without going too far is that if you ever, I had, um, with the training aspect of this, There was a time when I had a collector that said every single time I get on the phone, I keep getting yelled at. And I said, well, if you're getting yelled at by every single person that you are talking to, I said, it's not them, it's you.

[00:17:16] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So let's go and work together on what we're saying and how we're saying it. And sure enough, the moment they picked up the phone, uh, see that you missed the payment. Did you lose a job? What? That's not the first thing you go to. Better yet, the approach should be, hey, you know, uh, Mr. Pupil, it looks like we've been getting payments from you every single month, but we didn't get one last month.

[00:17:37] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: What happened? Are you okay? And just that switch of, hey, look at me caring about your situation, look at me recognizing that you were a timely paid, paying member until something changed, completely changed the perception on that member's side. And they're not as defensive. So anyway, I say all of that to say is you need to have those conversations with your team.

[00:18:01] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You need to be listening in on phone calls to see how that dialogue is going. Um, you need to train your team into understanding trigger words or trigger statements. And then again, to ask the question, why? , uh, I think one of my favorite statements that my team teaches me constantly, where I'm like, so what does that look like?

[00:18:18] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Or what does that mean? Keep saying that because it changes the dynamic of the conversation that you're having. So if a member says, Oh, well, you know, I can't make it, uh, make my pen that becomes tons of hard. Wow. How hard? What happened? What do you mean by hard? Keep asking those questions. And if you take the approach of I'm just doing this to be curious, because that even better yet, the approach that I teach is the more, you know, about a situation.

[00:18:46] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: The better equipped you are to manage it. And that's kind of how we talk to our members about it. Like, look, I'm not trying to pry. I'm not trying to be nosy. But the more I know about what's happening, the better I can fit you into a resolution that is perfectly suited to fix your, to fix your need or to fix your problem.

[00:19:03] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And so, um, again, I keep talking about this. It's the training. It's the quarterly training. It's the reviewing the accounts. Sometimes it's doing a hard audit. About twice a year. I will have my team come in on a Saturday and we will do, an account audit where I pull up all the collection notes of just a, pool of them, good, bad, and ugly.

[00:19:24] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I will black out the names of the collectors to protect the innocent, so to speak. But then we go through accounts and we do a hard, so what do you think about this? Or how do you think that this is flowing? And. Sometimes you need that, oh my goodness, well I thought that I was always asking these questions, or I thought that I was trying to help, but now that I'm looking at my actual little notes, oh, I, dropped the ball on this, there was an opportunity that I missed, type of thing.

[00:19:49] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: and it's not only keeping the member kind of accountable, but it's keeping your staff accountable as well. as I said before, um, again, there are a lot of things, , so when I talk about the training, that's always a big thing, but the other part when I talk about behaviors and managing behaviors is incentives.

[00:20:05] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So, I have a really great incentive structure with my team, and that incentive structure on how they get, you know, paid the extra money, it's paid out monthly, but it's based on the behaviors that I want to see, right? So, if I need you to focus on curing accounts, not just collecting a payment. You can incentivize on how many people you bring out of complete delinquency, you know?

[00:20:24] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: and again, that not only benefits the members, but it benefits, excuse me, my collection team as well. Phone etiquette, email etiquette. I mean, it's, if you, if these are not things that you are kind of keeping your thumb on the pulse of, then you're going to see like an uptick of complaints.

[00:20:43] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You're going to have members who don't feel like the credit union is really their help. And a good way to kind of you know, bring it home is to say, Hey, imagine yourself in that member's position. Imagine if this was you. How would you want to be spoken to? What would help you get out of this situation?

[00:20:57] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And then kind of doing and changing that perspective, it has you rethink how you say something. It has you showing more compassion in trying to get a member out of a situation. And the best thing yet, I mean, we're collectors, and there are people that will write us great praises, sitting as flowers.

[00:21:14] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Thank you so much, Credit Union, for not giving up on me. Thank you so much, Credit Union, for still working with me. And that doesn't happen unless you have the staff in place that not only understands the importance of why they, of what they're doing, but why what they do is so important. That was a lot, so I hope I answered everything.

[00:21:31] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: think now everybody understands why I say that I get off the call with every time that we've spoken with a big smile on my face. My God, there were so many great insights there. I think the creativity of the incentivization of rewarding different behavior, not just the collection part of it is so wildly important and I don't know.

[00:21:50] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Uh, and I know Alisha, you always are so kind in sharing some of the things that you're doing. And so hopefully there's some people that are out there listening to this that. Are curious about it. And, uh, for certainly I would imagine that you would be open to talking about it at C. U. C. P.

[00:22:05] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I can talk collections all day. I can talk incentives all day.

[00:22:11] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And I think the reason why we get along so well, if I had to boil down, you know, your approach, it's empathy, right? Yeah, the definition of empathy is to understand and feel What the other person is going through, and you are trying to encourage and train the entire team to find out what it is that they're going through in order to communicate in a way that you understand and feel what the member is going through.

[00:22:36] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Then you can come up with solutions that will help the member get to, you know, the end result that is best for everybody.

[00:22:44] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Everyone.

[00:22:45] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: It's taking that time to do it. The trick, however, is getting the member to connect, right? And I think that is the, it's become increasingly more difficult. I don't know about you, but, uh, you know, call rates, are seemingly going down.

[00:23:01] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Everybody's exploring different technologies in order to get to the member. Tell me a little bit about, you know, how you tackle ensuring that you are reaching the member and it's not easy. And I don't think that there's any magic. You know, spell that all of a sudden now you have a hundred percent connect rate, but what are some of the things that you're doing to ensure that that connection rate stays as high as, possible?

[00:23:23] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Absolutely. I think one of the first things that we work on just, as a company or even as a team, is we need to meet the members where they are. So how would you like to be communicated with? Is it email? Is it text? Is it by phone? You were right. Depending on what's going on in their situation, you know, people don't want to get called in the middle of their workday.

[00:23:45] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So would it be better if I sent you an email as well? Would it be better if I sent you a text? But what I will say though, um, when it comes to both written and, well, written communication via email and text, while there are some great benefits because it allows you to make that first initial contact with a member, there are going to be certain times when you want them on the phone.

[00:24:05] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Because they need to hear the urgency of, of what's, of what's going on in your life. Does that make sense? Or the urgency of, of what you're trying to relay. And sometimes that all, that doesn't always translate well in the written form. Not unless you are very, very well written. but it doesn't always translate.

[00:24:22] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Right? So the idea is, um, yes, I'm going to reach out by text. They're a great, um, depending on what kind of system that you have for your collections platform, you're going to have companies that can connect via your, um, via your, your platform with texting solutions. And that's actually one of the ones that we are working on right now that we are working on.

[00:24:41] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Getting a good texting solution in with our membership. And then that way, again, if now is not the best time to communicate, then let us know via text or email when it is, and we will kind of accommodate that. The other portion of that, uh, I know that some may get into the chat features.

[00:24:58] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: We're not there yet we, we want to be, because again, it's we want to meet our members where they are. So, however, best you want to communicate with us, we're going to do our best to accommodate.

[00:25:09] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Uh, absolutely. I think, you know, the, advice or the, comment that I would make to this is that it's a team sport and, you know, as director of collections, your primary focus aside from, you know, being, you know, kind of the quarterback and and leader of the team and, lead by example, is also to coordinate the technologies of where you're meeting your members.

[00:25:31] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And so there will always be members that want to walk into a branch and have a conversation face to face. There are going to be members that will engage in technology, like text messaging or on the portal or on chat or in, you know, insert, you know, a channel here, and there's always going to be percentages.

[00:25:50] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And I think every organization is going to see their own, I guess, percentage of engagement in those channels, and that could be based on demographics. It could be based on, you know, a number of different factors, but there really is no 1 or 2 piece that will fix everything. And so kudos to you for organizing that team sport of communication. You said something earlier that just, it made me laugh and I think it's gonna be with me for the rest of the day. I speak at a couple of different things and I poke fun a lot at, uh, communications and empathy and, uh, I use the example of that book, the Love Languages. Right. And so you have, uh, you know, uh, giving gifts and, uh, words of affection or affirmation and stuff like that. And I kind of tie it back. And so you turned around and, you know, you, you made the comment of, well, if, you know, every single, you know, person that you speak to, the outcome is not a great one.

[00:26:44] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Well, there's one common denominator here. I remember having that conversation with my father when I was younger and Surprise, surprise. I was a little bit of an energetic, you know, teen growing up and, you know, always, always struggling. And he pulled me aside. And when you said that, my eyes started to well, because I remember vividly that conversation with my father, where he just turned around and said, yeah, there's one common denominator. You know, and just that look of until the light bulb went on where it's like, Ooh, I need to review, you know, how it is that I'm doing it. And so because you go through that process, I can't speak highly enough of it. And it's not just in collections. I think as professionals, all of us auditing what we do and looking at ourselves as to how we do this and keeping ourselves open for change is so wildly important.

[00:27:32] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: That's what I love. What it's one of my top three things that I love speaking with you, Alisha, about is you're always looking at yourself and the team without having the ego of, Nope, this is the way that I've done it. And this is how we did it yesterday. And that's how we have to do it tomorrow. You're constantly looking at, you know, turning the dial to making it better.

[00:27:52] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And I, I love that. And that's where, that's where these conversations get wild and we end up on the phone for way more than what our scheduled time was. So I appreciate the time that you spend with me. If I could ask you something and, and maybe I, I could have done this at the beginning. I am so impressed with FSU Credit Union.

[00:28:11] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Tell me a little bit about the credit union. You guys do a lot of work, uh, in the community. I would love to just give, uh, a little bit of a shout out to the organization. I know that you have a strong passion for them.

[00:28:20] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: No, absolutely. So, FSU Credit Union, there is not, I don't even think we have enough time to go over just how much amazing, a place this is to work with. I have a top notch management team. Our, our director level is phenomenal. We have been in business, what, since 1954. Um, and when we started, it was just to, uh, we were working with FSU, uh, with the FSU staff.

[00:28:49] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Um, and so back in like 2010, we ended up expanding our charter to work with everyone who lives in our surrounding areas. We've had a couple of mergers. We're now we're almost regional. So we have locations in Panama City. We have locations in Pensacola, then of course the Crawfordville, Leon County, and Perry areas as well.

[00:29:08] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: But when I tell you that this is a place, this is a company, , and a little bit of a backstory on this. So when I came here back in 2017, I was coming from a different institution. That was a little bit on the larger side, um, that I absolutely loved. I had no, I never thought that I would leave that other company.

[00:29:26] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: But this opportunity came to build a collections team, to really build a collections team, you know, to build a collections department. And I was on the fence, right? I'm like, oh my goodness, I don't know if I want to leave because, well, I, I love what I do. This has been my home for so long. Because at the time, I think I was with that company for about 14 years.

[00:29:44] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I'm like, I'm not sure if I could leave it. And then I ended up speaking with the chief of staff at that place and I explained that, you know, one of the directors approached me and she and I had known each other for a while to say, Hey, there's this opportunity that I think that would be great for, would you like to come over?

[00:30:00] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And I said, well, where are you at? And when I said it's FSU Credit Union, the chief of staff said, if there were any place that I would say, um, that I'd be okay with losing you to, it would be there. I would, she's like, you're going to love it. They are family. They treat their members like family. They treat their staffs like family.

[00:30:18] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And I found that to be very true, but you know, just like family, we're not perfect, but we're there to help each other and support each other. I mean, prime example, prime example of this. So one of our directors, actually not even a director, it was one of our VPs had been driving along one of the branches and saw that there was a pothole, at one of the branches.

[00:30:38] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So the VP, one of the VPs, got out and started fixing the pothole because he did not want that to not only damage the image of, not so much the image of the credit union, but for the member's safety. So what other VP do you know would get out and be like, okay, let me get my shovel and some cement and let me go fix this to help our membership.

[00:30:57] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So that's the type of loyalty that is here. I mean, one of our branches has won credit union of the year for 13 years consecutively. Okay. And a part of that is what we, of what we teach, and it's from the top down, right, of how can we help people, how can we help our communities, whether that be volunteering, whether that be sponsoring certain charities, whether that just be the educational purpose of that.

[00:31:22] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: We are all about financial literacy and talking with people who've never had loans before and, and talking to them through the process, you would think that it would be done everywhere. And. As I, before I get too far in the weeds, I'm not sure if that's a FSU thing or a credit union thing, because the whole point of the whole credit union movement is we are people helping people.

[00:31:44] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You know, you are member owned. I mean, we're doing this for your benefit, not for someone else's benefit, if that makes any sense. , and so just the whole piece of, yes, we know that you want to buy this car. Yes, we know that you need to buy this house. Let's talk to you about what that looks like. I'm not sure of any other place that really strives and is intentional and having those conversations.

[00:32:05] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I mean, our tagline, um, where we're at now is maximizing your financial wellbeing. Can we do that? You say, Hey, what can we do to put you in a better financial place? And you know it's saying they talk the talk, but can they walk the walk? We walk the walk, which is why again, you, I couldn't be happier with where I'm at.

[00:32:27] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I found a company that shares my passion of helping people, whether that be lending or the collecting side. , and they do what they say that they're going to do. And that's important to me. There's a, there's an integrity and respect that comes with that. So

[00:32:41] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: For sure. And there's a humility or, or being humble and, you know, yeah, grab a shovel if it, that's what it takes. If you need to water the plant, water the plant. If there's

[00:32:50] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Exactly, exactly. Better example of that. Sorry to interrupt you on this, Michael. So when COVID hit and a lot of the, , a lot of, uh, institutions had remote employees and they sent a lot of their staff to work from home, we didn't. So we were out here every single day during COVID and our CEO, his stance on that was if my tellers have to come out here, if my frontline staff has to come out and has to work and help our membership, then everyone's going to come out and work and help the membership because we are really all in this together.

[00:33:22] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And that spoke volumes, still to me, like, I try not to get choked up about it, speaks volumes about how much it is, this is what we're here to do, and if they have to do it, we're going to do 

[00:33:34] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: the true definition of setting the example from the top down. How could you not feel inspired? To jump along with that mission and everybody pull in the same direction or push in the same direction. , and it makes it fun, even when there are things that are going on that are difficult.

[00:33:53] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And at that time, nobody really kind of knew what was going on, but kudos to that. So this is why I bring it up. I think you're right. It is a cultural. You know, kind of, uh, you know, I guess not phenomenon, but it is a cultural fit for all credit unions to be dedicated to their members, their community, um, and to give back and to grow, you know, coming from, uh, Canada, our banking system is very different, but I had the absolute pleasure of living in the United States for 12 years.

[00:34:24] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And, uh, when I look at You know, the technologies of today and the different levels of financial services that are available to us today. It boggles my mind how a hundred percent of people don't have a credit union or have a relationship with a credit union. And especially as cash becomes less, uh, of a necessity because everything is digital.

[00:34:45] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: I think the access to that ATM network, while wildly important so that people can get access to cash quickly, I think it has become less of a priority. And so you can still be a dedicated member to FSU, but live across the country because of all the technologies that allow us to still engage at the origination side, as well as on the repayment and the collection side.

[00:35:09] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And so this is where, you know, we become a pretty big advocate of doing things like these podcasts, because what we also want to do, and I'm going to flip to a question here about creating, you know, awareness to new members. And so you got, you talked a little bit, Alisha, about your expansion from just working with staff at FSU to look at the surrounding areas, a couple of M&A, and there is a lot of M&A work that is happening in 2024. Do you want to talk a little bit about what you guys are doing in order to attract either brand new members, younger demographics, you know, how are you looking at communicating? Cause I think it's wildly interesting because you have. Every generation now that we need to speak to from the greatest generation ever, all the way to the youngest one, Gen Z, which, uh, admittedly, I, I have a struggle doing communication in that language.

[00:35:59] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: They speak, and I still don't understand it. 

[00:36:01] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I don't think anyone does.

[00:36:03] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: I hate that I admitted that out loud. My nephews are going to tease me mercilessly. 

[00:36:07] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So that's a very good question, right? And so I think when we talk about, and this is for any institution, right? That when we talk about expanding and trying to get new membership, I think the first thing that you have to figure out is what are your strengths and what do you have to offer? So in a sense, what type of member do you want? Because depending on that, that can be, Like I go back a little bit on this. I know that there's always been this push of what are we going to do to attract the younger generation and to get the younger generation. But, you know, there's also a part of you like, but do people want to get their banking information from TikTok?

[00:36:43] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I mean, I mean, is that really what we're looking at? Is that really the level that we're at now? And you're thinking, no, I don't, I don't think that, you know, there's just, in my opinion, there are certain things that aren't going to change. If I'm in trouble. I want to talk to a person. I don't want to talk to a I.

[00:36:59] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: If I want to get my first home and I have questions, I want to talk to a person. I don't want to talk to AI. And so what I think for us, our strategy has been is let's figure out what we as an organization do really well and what we can offer. And then let's try to attract those people that that most benefit.

[00:37:18] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And so sometimes it is as we're going out and we're doing promotions on whether it be CD promotions or loan promotions or whatnot, it's making sure that we can already say this is the type of people that we want to serve and making sure that we have the products available to serve them and that's going to be different.

[00:37:35] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So I, I can't say that, you know, only serving or only helping out with businesses is where you should go. You can have a credit union and that's all you want to focus on. Like, look. Our goal and our desire is to help upcoming businesses get a head start. So that's where all of our focus is going to go.

[00:37:52] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And if that's what you want to do, if that's a part of your strategic plan or your strategic initiative, then you go for that. But the biggest piece is figuring out what do we do well, how can we make the most impactful, and then we are only, in a sense, not so much catering to that, but we are focusing on attracting those types of members that we can benefit most.

[00:38:11] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And so that will be different based on your location, based on your size, based on what you, again, what your end goal has to be. So as long as you can kind of figure out that piece, I think the other one kind of flows, flows right, right into it.

[00:38:23] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Well said. Yeah. I asked this question a lot because, membership from many credit unions have been stagnant or decreasing. And then the way to increase that is through M&A. And there's always such a point towards the next generation, the newest generation, but there are plenty of members in other generations that sit within the geographic location or the, you know, the area that you are, that you're already serving.

[00:38:49] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And are able to communicate with that. We can pull over. I agree. Is TikTok going to be the area where I'm going to go get it? Or you mean I can't get my stock advice off of TikTok?

[00:38:59] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: [00:39:00] Correct.

[00:39:00] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Three stocks that I need to buy in 2024 from somebody who has 14 followers, you know, it, it just, and maybe it is, who knows, maybe we're in that generation where we're looking at it and we're like, what do you mean a mobile app?

[00:39:12] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: I don't need to have a mobile app. I can just go online. Right. And technology moves so quickly. That, uh, it's very, it's very easy to get lost in it. So I love that you stay grounded and throw the anchor of, well, first, hold on, let's discuss what we are really great at and who do we serve and what, what is our ideal membership to this?

[00:39:33] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And that ideal membership I think is so key. There were so many organizations that engaged in indirect lending over the pandemic to try to acquire new business and to have that growth, which I think is wonderful. There are a few organizations that had a very well thought out plan to try to pull those new members who a hundred percent of the time had a different financial institution as their primary to bring them over to really get that loyalty.

[00:40:04] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And it was easy when we started off with. Well, it's going to be the teachers of FSU and, you know, there's already that bond, but if I just decided to walk in, buy a car, and now I'm, you know, a member of a different organization, is there really that loyalty? And I think many are starting to realize, no, there isn't, and communicating where they want to be met and then, you know, kind of learning a little bit about them and being able to service them is wildly important, but it all starts with what are we great at,

[00:40:34] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Be great at.

[00:40:35] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: where, what are we great at and how do we amplify that in the area that we're in? And that's such good advice. That's the place to start. That's a place to start. Alisha. I know that you are wildly busy. We're coming up on time, but I want to leave it. Is there anything that you want to share a topic that maybe I didn't ask or, uh, comments?

[00:40:52] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: I know we talked about CUCP, there's, uh, events that you guys are doing, maybe some advice for any of the listeners that are out there. And this is going to, you know, kind of be all over the place, uh, countrywide. You know, maybe advice to, uh, those that are younger in their career in collections. What would you say, uh, was one of the things that helped you and give them a pointer of saying, Hey, go, go take a look at this.

[00:41:17] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Could be getting involved in local chapters. Could be events. You know, what helped you the most in your evolution? Maybe we'll end there. 

[00:41:24] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I think, um, but I'll pick on as. The advice, especially when I think about what I would say to my younger self when I started this. And even when I say to some of my newer team members that are coming in, because some of my staff are, you know, in that, that earlier age of 19 and 20 and 21 years old coming into this field and they're asking the questions of why, what can I do?

[00:41:45] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And you know, where, do I see myself? I think one of the things that I will recommend to everyone is patience. That it takes time to learn something and learn something well. Um, this was prior to me even getting into the credit union world; I actually worked at Publix and have trained cashiers and baggers and so forth there.

[00:42:06] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And then, um, again, as a branch tailor supervisor, then even as, uh, you know, in collections and training staff. One of the things that I cannot stress enough is have the patience and slow it down to get it right. Get the transaction right. Get the communication right. If it takes you 20 minutes to have one phone call, but it's a good phone call, then that's what we want.

[00:42:28] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: To always push quality. The quality of your work needs to be more important than the quantity. of How fast you can do it, how often you can do it. Because over time, that skill becomes second nature. And then all of a sudden, what used to take you 20 minutes to get to the heart of a situation, you can do in two.

[00:42:47] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: And it's the experience of it. The experience helps. I get, you know, even one of the things that I um, get asked, uh, just even with my career, how I moved up, is what were some of the  things, like, you know, how on earth do you go from being, you know, a regular collector to a collection supervisor in two and a half, three years, right?

[00:43:07] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: That's a really fast jump. I said, but a part of it is, you know, Trying to craft my skills. How can I make it better? How can I make it, you know, streamline this process? How can I, um, you know, uh, improve the quality of the work that I have? Because at the end of the day, that's what people look for. They want someone who will do it well 90 percent of the time.

[00:43:27] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Because keep in mind, 90 percent is an A, right? So as long as you're getting an A, we're good to go. And I think there's so much of that, even now with some of my younger staff, There's so much of this rush to, oh, I'm done, I'm done, and I made all my calls, and I did all these things. I said, well, while that is fantastic, what did we really learn from that?

[00:43:45] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You're not really growing yourself if you're rushing through the process. So take your time. Immerse yourself in the process. Learn it like you know it, like the back of your hand. Um, and in that sense, what you do is you make yourself indispensable, right? Because you know the product better than anybody else does.

[00:44:02] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Because you know your membership better than anybody else does. And that is what not only, in my opinion, keeps you fulfilled and allows you to sleep well at night, but it gives you that energy and that motivation just to keep going. Like,  I've got young, young children, so you're going to have to forgive me on this, but, uh, on Encanto, you know, and the sister song is, What Else Can I Do?

[00:44:24] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: That's what you get once you learn how to do something. Once you learn how to do something well and you become, um, proficient with it. It kind of, it kind of unleashes something, right? You're thinking, oh my goodness, look how, look how I just conquered that. What else can I do? But that only happens when you take the time to learn it and to grow with it.

[00:44:44] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: So for anyone who's new into this field, that's what you have to do. Be patient, take time, learn it, know it well. For anyone who's been in this field for 10 years or for 15 years, and he feels as if, oh my goodness, how do you, like, I don't feel that way when I come into work.

[00:44:59] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Yeah.

[00:45:00] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Sometimes you have to kind of take a step back and say, okay, well, why did you get here in the first place?

[00:45:04] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: What brought you to this position in the first place to kind of reignite that passion, reignite that spark, right? , and then invest in yourself, find these conferences. You can go to, I think it's TrueStage. They will have a couple of online courses that you can take. I will always plug the CUTP. Come see us for some of our conferences.

[00:45:22] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: But even better yet, um, your legal team. Like, we have a phenomenal legal team, um, who partners with us, with our credit union. And they, um, offer on-site training. So they also do annual conferences as well. Does your legal team do that? So again, get the networking, and Attach yourself or connect yourself with other people who are passionate about what they do, and then ask kind of the questions that you've been asking, Michael, like, why do you do what you do?

[00:45:48] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Why have you stayed as long as you stayed? And sometimes that's infectious, right? Sometimes people will see that and will latch on and catch on to tha passion, um, and it does, it re energizes them in their field. Again, I know I'm all over the place, but that's kind of what we hope to bring when you come to our CUCP conferences.

[00:46:11] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: That's what I hope I give out when you all talk, when we talk about collections. It's, this is why we do what we do, to build in that camaraderie, to have a team, even like our team ourselves. I say that we're, we're a family, we're a dysfunctional family, but we're our own dysfunctional family, right? It stays, it stays in the house.

[00:46:27] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: But, a part of that is, you need that. These are the people that you are with, eight to nine hours to sometimes 10 hours a day. If you are not trying to build relationships with your team within your department that that's that can lead to burnout that can lead to oh my goodness I can't believe I'm doing this again and have a whole different thing.

[00:46:48] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: You're like, hey, I may be doing this again, but I'm doing this with my girl. And so I know that we're gonna be okay and so Um, make sure that you are, you're finding ways to nurture that, to nurture working together to meet a common end or to meet a common goal, but patience, invest in yourself, believe in yourself, find people who you want to not so much emulate, because I don't want anybody worshiping me.

[00:47:12] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: This is the whole thing. I'm a person. I put my pants on one leg at a time, like everybody else does, but who can strive to be what you want or have a type of life that you want, but who are comfortable in what they're doing. And you, you can tell from a mile off that, oh my goodness, what's in that person's coffee?

[00:47:35] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Because I want to be that inspired, and I want to have the kind of life that they're having. And I promise you, people like us, we're willing to share our stories. We're willing to let you know kind of How we got where we got, what works for us, right? What didn't work. Best thing about hindsight, it is 2020.

[00:47:51] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: I can tell you some mistakes that were made, but I can also tell you what I learned from them. And I wouldn't be the person that I was in the position that I'm in right now, kind of not made those mistakes to learn from them. 

[00:48:02] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Alisha, you are so wildly inspiring. It's, uh, God, I love talking to you. And I can't wait to see you in a couple of weeks at CUCP. Uh, I have a feeling we're going to pick up right where we leave off from this conversation. I want to thank you for dedicating, you know, an hour of time with us, uh, today. I know how insanely busy you are.

[00:48:21] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Uh, you are an inspiring leader. I am so grateful for the friendship that we have developed, and I know that we're going to be in contact for many years, and I am excited to grow alongside with you. And so thank you for being here today. Thank you for sharing your experience. I think we have so many great nuggets of wisdom and information that I'm excited to share with the rest of the group.

[00:48:43] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: And I know that you're going to be excited if anybody reaches out to you to say, hey, I saw you on this, and I have some questions for you. And I think that

[00:48:49] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Absolutely.

[00:48:50] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Into your passion as well. So thank you everyone. And, uh, on that note, we'll wrap up. And so join us next time for Lexop's Connect and Collect podcast, where we bring in some inspiring leaders in the collection space and happy to share our stories.

[00:49:05] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop: Thank you again, Alisha.

[00:49:06] Alisha Blondel - Director of Collections at FSU Credit Union: Thank you.

[00:49:09] Michael Pupil - VP of Sales, Lexop:Thank you for listening to the Connect and Collect podcast. Find show notes and other resources for this episode at Lexop. com. And if you enjoyed the episode, make sure to subscribe, like, share, and comment.